Lastest firmware lost functions

I just updated to 1.2.2 via du-station... and when MIDI is in ctrl or ctrl/seq mode there has been a change:

1) Pressing the du-sound button lets you pick the MIDI channel on the right keyboard which is nice...
2) BUT, you can no longer change the octave of the keyboard by holding down the du-sound button and running the right slider.

This is really unfortunate, as on a dualo-S I often need to shift the octave of the keyboard.

Can we have this back?

Comments

  • Hello mzero,
    Thank you for your feedback.

    You can only change octaves on ctrl/seq/synth mode, apparently the feature of changing octaves via the right slider has never existed in ctrl or ctrl/seq mode, but we are now considering it.

    Maybe for a next update. Meanwhile, you can still use the dualo in ctrl/seq/synth mode, and change your midi channels via the left slider, and octave via the right one.

    Cheers,

  • Oh- I must have always used ctrl/seq/synth mode before.... But yes, please consider it for ctrl and ctrl/seq mode!!

  • Hi mzero,
    may I ask you what's the context of your use of the Dualo as a MIDI controller? We are working in the long run on the different MIDI mode and we would be very happy to hear about the way you use it.
    What is your DAW?
    How do you use the dualo as a MIDI controller?
    What would you like to do that you currently can't do?

  • I perform live, cross-genre electronic music. Here's a picture of a session last year where I incorporated the du-touch:

    Digitakt & PiSound

    Since then, I've added another small synth to the rig (a PreenFM2). The du-touch is used as a melodic MIDI controller - the MIDI feeds into the RaspberryPi, which simply routes the MIDI and sends to the synth voices, or the Digitakt voices depending on channel. For this, MIDI on the du-touch is fine, as quickly switching MIDI channels is good enough to route as needed. I play on the dualo keyboard layout melodically, use the sliders, aftertouch, and position sensors to send CCs.

    I'd also like to sometimes use the sound of the du-touch sometimes - but as noted in another thread, there is far too much USB noise in the audio channel when the du-touch is plugged into USB. This is sad, as the whole audio side of the du-touch is wasted for me....

    I use MIDI looping. You'd think the looper in the du-touch would be perfect... BUT... it has no way of syncing with the rest of the rig: In particular, it doesn't receive (or send) MIDI clock. My whole rig has not only consistent MIDI sync between the devices, it also uses Ableton Link (run on the Pi) to stay in sync with the other band members. This works very well. To incorporate the du-touch's looper, I'd need it to support MIDI clock (and start/stop), and perhaps Song Position Pointer messages. In the meantime, I sadly have to ignore the looper in the du-touch entirely, and do MIDI looping in the RaspberryPi.

    Finally, It would be useful to have access to a quick set of alternate "buttons". I imagine that while holding down the music button, in addition to the 16 channel selector on the right, perhaps the left keyboard could send Note On/Off for notes, simply consecutively, on some "control" channel, 15, say. These I could map in the Pi (or a DAW) to various functions. Note: for these kinds of external controls to work, they MUST also listen to the same commands on MIDI in, so that the light state is controlled by the remote mapping.

    My DAW is Ableton Live... but please, don't create plug-ins or integrations with it - they are always more trouble than they're worth for a controller. I use a DAW, occasionally live, but for various non-live compositions and mixing. Here, in this context, the du-touch is fine - as it gets used just as a note performance device.

  • edited March 2018

    Thank you for this long answer!
    Yes, we know that pluging USB and audio at the same time produces lots of noise. This is something we tried to figure it out, but its pretty complex and there was no working good solution for our use. I know it exists some box to try to counteract this, I'll check and put the link here. I know these box were a good solution for a setup with a Keith McMillen Softstep pedalboard (which was producing so much noise that the USB soundcard was buzzing).

    Midi Clock is on our to-do list. We know that would be very useful.

    I like the idea of the "control" channel 15, and of course for the "same commands on MIDI in, so that the light state is controlled by the remote mapping".

    In the "Live" MIDI Mode each hardware controllers send a MIDI Message, and receive the same to light the keys. Use the velocity to change color. Notes for keyboard, CCs for controllers. Even the buttons of course, but no, you can't control the light of the Music button. Not yet.

    The "Live" mode has been made for our prototype of M4L plugin interface to control Ableton Live. The core is working, and using it gives a lot of possibilities but as for now, I would say the mix of them becomes another instrument, as each of Ableton Live and the dualo has its own workflow.

    By the way thanks for your answers, its good to learn from our user how they integrate their dualo in their own music context.

  • edited April 2018

    About the looper and the MIDI clock, I'd like to understand why you don't use the same tempo on the dualo and your other gear to be sync. If you set the dualo at, let's say, 120BPM and the quantizer ON, and the master of your other gear at the same tempo, you should be synced. What I would like to read from you is what are the use that doesn't work with this setup. That would help us a lot to design the next step of the MIDI integration in the du-touch, like should it be slave or master?
    One thing to understand is that the looper inside the dualo works in a very different way than a DAW. Mainly, it doesn't have a notion of measure or even where is the first beat.

  • Consider this: I routinely play an hour long continuous set with other musicians. We don't stay at 120 bpm the whole hour. Since we don't always stop between parts - you can't just reset the BPM on all devices (even with just two of us, we routinely have 6 things that need BPM information: loopers, controllers with arpeggiators, synths with beat-sync'd delays, etc...) If you did, they'd all be out of "the one" - so you'd need to manually stop and restart them all.

    Further, when playing live often one of us is adjusting tempo via tap-tempo foot switch, or a rotary control... With MIDI clock sync (and even better, Link support) every device stays in sync, and together on the downbeat as this happens. You can't make that happen by adjusting them all manually... we are not octopuses!

    I appreciate that the looper in the Dualo is different - in fact I like it for that reason very much... but it does, somewhat, have a notion of "the one": When you tap the music button at the end of playing to "loop what I just played"... that is as good a notion of "the one", as any - at least on the first track looped. When externally sync'd, you could treat all loops on the dualo as second loops: The external clock has already established "the one", and the multiple (a beat) that all loops on the dualo should be sync'd to.

    Lastly - even if both devices are set to 120 BPM - a mere 0.01% (100ppm) drift will have you almost 1 beat out at the end of an hour set - and for consumer devices, 200ppm is not uncommon. What's the accuracy of the crystal in the Dualo?

    I'm not sure why you'd suggest free-running the BPM of two electronic instruments: Sync isn't hard. Every single synth and sequencer I own, from big names to boutique devices, supports MIDI clock sync.... except the dutouch.

  • Just to clear, also: It essential that the dualo can slave to MIDI clock, not just master.

  • Ok, I understand your use. I don't know yet if the way you propose would be the right way to do it, but that's a start.

    FYI, the crystal inside the dualo is 30ppm. Of course it's a kind of theoretical measure, as we have processes running concurrently and sometimes they add a bit of latency. But you would be far less than a beat drift for an hour. I have to admit we didn't test it that much with a du-touch and a DAW, but when we tested it there was no big thing to remark.

    Please be sure we want to add the MIDI clock sync as soon as we can, but we are now working hard on the interactive learning method so I can't give a date of release yet.

    Once again many thanks for your answer :-)

  • Very interesting !

  • edited July 17

    @Bruno @Sergueï do you have an update on the information in this thread? The user above @mzero has a setup similar to mine and I'm just now learning about the Du-Touch-S...

    Did you make any progress on Midi Sync and the other issues he mentions?

    Also, Is the noise on the audio output truly impossible to remedy when the device is connected to a usb midi host?

  • Hello,

    Not much for now as we were mainly working on the production of new intruments since the takeover.

    The midi clock sync is on the todolist, and should be done before the end of the year I guess.

    We'll have to investigate (I'm not the engineer here :p) but I don't think we can stop the noise without changing the hardware.

  • When the sync functions are done, do you think your midi looper will stay synced with external sequencers?

    The keyboard and control scheme is so appealing to me and I’m really curious to use this device along with other equipment.

  • Well I think we will put our efforts to make it work the best for every situation ! ;)
    When working on it, we may be able to sort things out to make you and @mzero our privileged testers !

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